4-day week - Laurent de la Clergerie's advice on how to implement it
Laurent de la Clergerie is the boss of a high-tech and hardware company in Lyon, with over 1,000 employees. Over the past two years, he's been in the news a lot, because he dared to switch to a 4-day week in his company. A success story! Are you a manager or HR professional? Discover how Laurent went from reflection to action, to improve the well-being of his employees by switching to a 4-day week.
Where did you get the idea of going from 5 to 4 working days?
5 years ago, we were on the stock market, and I announced that in 5 years' time we'd be doing a billion in sales. Then I went back on that decision and told my teams: "I made a mistake." I announced that we would double our sales, but that wasn't my priority. My priority was to improve their well-being. And it's because my teams will feel good that the figures will be good, rather than the other way round. So sales were not the objective. So I set about finding out what I could do to improve the well-being of my teams.
How did this work subsequently take shape?
For example, I eliminated commissions for sales people. They asked me what their objectives were. I told them: "You no longer have any objectives. Since you work for the company and we all have the same objective, the goal is to go as far as possible." The wish was that we work for the company on the one hand and for our well-being on the other, and I didn't want there to be any pressure linked to targets to achieve. In the discussion with the sales team, I drew a comparison with video games, telling them "if you give it your best shot, I know the numbers will go up, because as the game goes on you'll get better and better." With regard to the 4-day week, the idea came to me when I read an article in which Microsoft had tested this new organization in Japan. The company got a lot of positive things out of it, but didn't want to repeat the experiment. When I saw this, I wondered what would be the consequences of working in 4 days at LDLC. So I ran a simulation with my company.
How did the simulation work?
I imagined that everyone passed in 4 days. If we kept the same number of hours, we'd go to 9 hours. That was too much, so I opted for 8 hours. I didn't touch the salary, as it wouldn't have worked. From there, I wondered about the cost. Giving up 9% of working hours meant recruiting new people to compensate. In calculating the cost, I included the hardest jobs where the work rate could not be changed. The 9% of hours were therefore lost. Then there were the time-attendance jobs, such as customer relations, which depend on opening times. I couldn't compensate for them. And finally, there were the office jobs. Since offices have the highest salaries, I figured it would cost me at worst 5% of the payroll in recruitment to make up for the lost hours. So I thought I'd pay up and see.
How was the 4-day announcement received by employees?
I waited until the annual negotiations to talk about it. Nobody knew about it except my brother, who is the company's General Manager and CFO. We communicated it after the announcement of the wage increase we had maintained. I then asked the employees if they agreed to work a 4-day, 32-hour week. Then there were two main questions: What would be the impact on wages? How long would the test last? I replied that it wasn't a test, but a final decision. I knew how much it would cost me at worst, and as for the rest, I told myself I'd have to wait and see.
What fears did employees express?
"I can't do my job in 5 days, so the 4-day week doesn't apply to me." To which I replied that we'd have to test it out, and if it didn't work, we'd have to learn to delegate.
"How are we going to make schedules in 4 days?" Finally, the teams realized as they made them that they could do it without a problem. Each team was responsible for its own schedule;
And the third fear was managerial:"if I'm away, every week, the day I'm not here, my team isn't going to do anything." It was just a problem of trust in the teams. And besides, I told them"when you're on vacation, they work, don't worry."
Laurent De la Clergerie jumped at the idea of 4 days, and the teams followed suit. How was the organization rethought? What were the positive and negative impacts of this change? How did investors react? To find out more about the introduction of the 4-day week and tips on how to apply it, you can continue reading this article;
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How do you implement the 4-day week?
We worked on setting up the project for 6 months. The legal part mainly concerned scheduling. To maintain salaries and pensions, we went to 32 hours full-time by increasing hourly rates. On the operational side, we set up pairs in each department. Every other week, an employee chooses his or her day off, and alternates with another employee. We launched in January 2021. Initially, we said we'd take a break after 3 months, and fix anything that went wrong. But in fact, it worked right away. Some people rethought their way of working, but at no time were there any big meetings. The employees created their own rhythms to adapt to it.
Would you say that LDLC's corporate culture made this possible?
The culture was doing well. The year before, in 2020, we registered with Great Place To Work to find out if we were. And indeed, 80% of employees recommended coming to the company. 1 year later, we had implemented the 4-day week and this figure had risen to 89%. The main sticking point today is that I'm 100% against telecommuting;
What are the positive points noted following its implementation?
#1 Increased sales for one thing. The year we introduced the 4 days was during covid. We achieved a 40% increase in sales that year, and it saved me payroll;
#2 More productivity over 4 days
#3 Reducing conflict
#4 Reduced absenteeism. Before, when I got angry with an employee over a subject, it could be followed by 15 days off work for mental load or stress. That's gone.
#5 Finally, with regard to accidents at work, there's also the notion of road accidents on the way to work. They have been halved;
# 6 I have less turnover, so we spend less time recruiting, training and integrating new people.
All this generates financial gains;
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What do employees do on this extra day off?
In our modern society, we get up, take the kids to school and go to work. At the end of the day, it hasn't really been lived. When you arrive on Saturday, you do all the things you didn't have time to do, and on Sunday, you rest. When you add an extra day, you get back some personal time, time to take care of yourself. So you come back with no worries in your head, and more efficient during your working days. And because you're more efficient, you don't bring work home with you. It's a virtuous circle;
Do you have any figures showing employee satisfaction?
In the survey, "How do you feel about the introduction of the 4-day week?", the responses were as follows:
50% is a real plus that I appreciate
35% it changed my life, pure happiness
5% is good but I haven't found my rhythm yet
5.3% I didn't really believe in it, but in the end it's good.
3% I still have my doubts about what it can do for me
0.08% stop, it was better before
Following this survey, I looked for the 0.08% and found two out of three. One didn't like the removal of the 13 days of RTT, because she used to put these days on school vacations, which she could no longer do. And the other person didn't like it because his wife worked 5 days and felt it was up to him to do the shopping and housework on his extra day. Which didn't suit her.
What are the mistakes not to make when implementing the 4-day week?
One mistake I made was to add an extra day of teleworking. But as soon as there are 3 days' absence per person, some people don't see each other at all, and this creates a breakdown in relations which is felt in the management of the company. If you introduce it for two or three people, the others will say "why not me?" so you have to be a bit radical and not introduce it at all.
Have you been able to identify any limits to its implementation?
I don't have any turnover. As things are going very well, people don't leave. As I was saying, this has certain advantages in terms of costs. But new ideas have to come into a company, otherwise it sclerotizes after a while. We're able to pay salaries, so we're not going to drive people away. It's just that there's a slowdown in the company;
Have you lost any investors? What are your tips for telling investors?
No. It was scary, but today it's a non-issue for investors. Some people have made remarks like: "you're not running an NGO." As for the announcement, I didn't ask myself how I was going to do it, I just did it. Afterwards, it all depends on the people in front of me. But yes, it's scary. When I talk to economists about it, they think it's an impossible equation. For them, working 4 days inevitably increases the mental load;
4 tips for businesses on implementing the 4-day week
#1 Ask yourself, "What's my maximum risk?" Then, "do I go or not?"
#2 Trusting others: as the teams managed their schedules themselves, they put constraints on themselves without any being put on them. Let things happen: people adapt and build their own rhythm around the project.
#3 Convince just one person: the manager. Almost all of his or her management staff will be against this decision, so the manager needs to be convinced.
#4 Faire attention aux cabinets de conseil qui veulent vous accompagner sur la mise en place des 4 jours. Beaucoup proposent ces services, mais peu savent ce qu’est vraiment la semaine de 4 jours. Je dirai donc : “ne vous faites pas accompagner par un cabinet qui n’est pas au 4 jours.”
How difficult can it be for a manager to think this way?
A lot of managers are convinced that just because one or two of them aren't on the ball, they have to look after everyone else. In my opinion, it's better to ignore them and look after the others. So, I'll take a concrete case to illustrate certain bottlenecks. When I introduced the 4-day week, a boss told me: "the day I can, I'll do it." He was struggling during the covid period at the time. The following year, his company took off again, and I said to him:"it's okay, you can implement it." He replied:"everything's fine, I don't see why I should change anything." There you have it, that's the problem.
Your final word?
The reason I mention it is because I'm convinced that if the 4-day week were more widely applied, or any other form of work that made people feel better for that matter, we'd be changing the country.
Further information
👉The free download book: Dare the 4-day week